Alte doppeltarifzähler (Nachstrom)

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djl
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Registriert: Do 27. Jan 2022, 00:31

Alte doppeltarifzähler (Nachstrom)

Beitrag von djl »

Hello. Sorry for writing in English, but I don't speak German (I know only a few words).
There is one curiosity that puzzles me: how the old doppeltarifzähler that worked for 2 hours tarif, day and night (Nachtstrom) worked. I never seen even one in a picture (I searched with "Google") so I'm a curios how they worked before the days of the tranzistors and radio waves? They had a clock conected or there was a signal somehow transmited via the power (strom) lines or a telephone line?
Probably a book like this https://www.booklooker.de/B%C3%BCcher/S ... rTquW01ZZl would help me, but finding one in Romania. Probably there is an online book, but since I don't speak German...

Apromexatevely German translation ("Google"):
Hallo. Tut mir leid, dass ich auf Englisch schreibe, aber ich spreche kein Deutsch (ich kenne nur ein paar Wörter).
Es gibt eine Kuriosität, die mich verwirrt: wie der alte Doppeltarifzähler, der 2 Stunden Tarif, Tag und Nacht (Nachtstrom) funktionierte, funktionierte. Ich habe noch nie einen auf einem Bild gesehen (ich habe mit "Google" gesucht), also bin ich neugierig, wie sie vor den Tagen der Tranzistoren und Radiowellen funktionierten? Sie hatten eine Uhr angeschlossen oder es wurde irgendwie ein Signal über die Stromleitungen oder eine Telefonleitung übertragen?
Wahrscheinlich ein Buch wie dieses https://www.booklooker.de/B%C3%BCcher/S ... A4rkischen -Elektricit%C3%A4tswerkes/id/A02rTquW01ZZl würde mir helfen, aber einen in Rumänien zu finden. Wahrscheinlich gibt es ein Online-Buch, aber da ich kein Deutsch spreche...
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Raider
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Registriert: Fr 11. Jul 2014, 16:58
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Re: Alte doppeltarifzähler (Nachstrom)

Beitrag von Raider »

Good morning,

there is a signal modulated in the powerline. In german its called Rundsteuertechnik, maybe you can translate the Wikipedia article for you. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rundsteuertechnik
djl
Beiträge: 17
Registriert: Do 27. Jan 2022, 00:31

Re: Alte doppeltarifzähler (Nachstrom)

Beitrag von djl »

I thougth that one of the methodes could be transmiting a signal via the power line, but didn't had any methode to see if that was correct. They used that signal back in the '20-'30's too?
Intresting too see that the tarrif for hot water boilers was different then for the rest of the household appliances.

I have this in my collection :)
post-18263-0-66885300-1630863836.jpg
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Carbon
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Registriert: Di 23. Jun 2020, 21:35

Re: Alte doppeltarifzähler (Nachstrom)

Beitrag von Carbon »

hi
the ,,Transkommando" System, an early version of the powerline control Systems was invented in the mid 30's. here is some information about it, mayby you can translate it with google.
http://rundsteuerung.de/entwicklung/transkommando.html
djl
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Registriert: Do 27. Jan 2022, 00:31

Re: Alte doppeltarifzähler (Nachstrom)

Beitrag von djl »

I transalted it. Intresting system. The mechanism makes me think at teletypers (fernschreibens). I only read about teletypers, since I'm not so old to have interect with one (trough all some where probably in use up untill I was around 22-23).
Rundsteuertechnik means radio technology?
They quited the system because it might affect some devices?
I wonder if the could cut the power from distance - one reason I'm glad that in the apartament where I live there is still a classci k.W.h. meter.
The system made by "A.E.G." camed into the mid '30's, but the book from the link of the 1st post mentions schaltuhr. Was this for the 2 tarrifs or it was a user comand relay?
ALF2000
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Re: Alte doppeltarifzähler (Nachstrom)

Beitrag von ALF2000 »

on old electro meters you had connectionpoints for a 220v controlvoltage. it switched mostly by rundsteuertechnik or schaltuhr from day to nightmodus
djl
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Registriert: Do 27. Jan 2022, 00:31

Re: Alte doppeltarifzähler (Nachstrom)

Beitrag von djl »

They used this methode? http://rundsteuerung.de/entwicklung/transkommando.html
or other one?
DocDan
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Re: Alte doppeltarifzähler (Nachstrom)

Beitrag von DocDan »

RODALCO at youtube shows the ripple-injection system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxwxP_i3-VE (and other Videos from him)
That should be how the "Rundsteuesystem" in germany works.
djl
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Registriert: Do 27. Jan 2022, 00:31

Re: Alte doppeltarifzähler (Nachstrom)

Beitrag von djl »

I've looked. Intresting.
But I want to be sure that doppletarif camed only in 1935 and no system was before it. :geek:
djl
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Registriert: Do 27. Jan 2022, 00:31

Re: Alte doppeltarifzähler (Nachstrom)

Beitrag von djl »

But I wonder, there where magazines that published by the electricall companies (or German had a single one even befrore W.W. 1 or 1949) that could mention this. I don't speak German, so I don't know for what to look.
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Chemnitzsurfer
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Re: Alte doppeltarifzähler (Nachstrom)

Beitrag von Chemnitzsurfer »

The best-known magazine for electricians was only created in 1947 as part of a craftsman's newspaper and has only been an independent magazine since the mid-1950s
Every larger city has or had its own electrical supply company, although many companies have been bought up or have joined forces in the meantime.

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bewag_(Berlin)
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayernw ... versorger)
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PreussenElektra
djl
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Registriert: Do 27. Jan 2022, 00:31

Re: Alte doppeltarifzähler (Nachstrom)

Beitrag von djl »

What is the name of that magazine? In Romania we had "Buletinul/Revista GazElectra" ("The GazElectra Bouletin/Magazine") of Societatea Generală de Gaz şi Electrictate Bucureşti (General Company of Gas and Electricity Bucharest), from wich I was able to find some information. This company operated in Bucharest and around it, but had som power lines too. I thought that maybe there was such a magazine in Germany too.
So Germany (West) never had something like E.N.E.L. (Italy) or the National Grid (United Kingdom and Northen Ireland).

I wonder what was the tarrif for electricity in the '20''s and '30's. In Romania it was very expensive, so even in Bucharest a lot of housegholds couldn't afford it.

This book might helped me, but I missed it.
Dateianhänge
die-deursche-elektrizitats-versorgung-carte-tehnica-despre-furnizarea-energiei-electrice-text-in-limba-germana-p74882-01.jpg
die-deursche-elektrizitats-versorgung-carte-tehnica-despre-furnizarea-energiei-electrice-text-in-limba-germana-p74882-0.jpg
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Chemnitzsurfer
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Re: Alte doppeltarifzähler (Nachstrom)

Beitrag von Chemnitzsurfer »

The magazine is "Elektropraktiker".
I found this page
https://www.berliner-mieterverein.de/ma ... 111424.htm
In 1888, 1 kWh cost 80 pfennigs, the house connection 250 marks. In addition, there was an annual rent of 6 marks for an incandescent lamp, you had to pay 12 marks a year for an off switch for three lamps, and an additional 15 to 40 marks were due for the meter. A worker at the electricity works earned 22.5 to 27.5 pfennigs an hour.

and here is a coin meter which was produced sice 1920 for 10 pfennigs you got 217Wh
https://www.vde-leipzig-halle.de/de/fac ... enzeinwurf
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